When History does not tell the whole truth
November 19, 2006
I personally accept the Jewish Holocaust by the Nazis. I think the Nazis were people that should never have existed, but unfotunately evil people always exist and…act. There have been arguments about the exact quantity of Jews slain by the Nazi gangsters. I do not think Nazism is an ideology it is sheer gangsterism, the use of evil minds to kill, steal, torture and all kinds of aberrations an evil human mind can concoct.
I am, though, not convinced that the figure 6 million Jews be accurate, because applying pure mathematics and statistics, it does not seem to me to be credible, just for the fact that the Jewish population living in Europe at the time of the Holocaust I do not think was very much over those 6 million. There exist also a number of other ethnicities, such as gypsies, or homosexuals or mentally handicapped, political prisoners that some archives quantify as 6 million as well, whose deaths have not been so much highlighted as were those of the Jews, and I wonder why this discrimination.
Recently some documents have been extracted from the archives of the International Tracing Service, which belong to the International Red Cross Committee, which appear to give more information about the infamous events taking place in that lugubrious epoch.The information appeared, in accordance with the link I am giving below, does also mention that there are :”millions of documents held by the International Tracing Service, or ITS, an arm of the International Committee of the Red Cross.”
The article I have mentioned, the link of which I repeat I am adding below, also says:
“This vast archive — 16 miles of files in six nondescript buildings in a German spa town — contains the fullest records of Nazi persecutions in existence. But because of concerns about the victims’ privacy, the ITS has kept the files closed to the public for half a century, doling out information in minimal amounts to survivors or their descendants on a strict need-to-know basis”.
In my opinion while these documents remain under absolute secrecy, it is difficult to give credibility to the rest of the information that has been given regarding the crimes of Nazism last century.
Political, Human, Environmental Respect 
I’m having problems with the links, let’s see if it comes out now:
HolocaustArchive
The 6 million figure seem significant to fulfil ancient prophesies before the State of Israel could be created. Certainly the first claim of a Jewish 6 million holocaust I’ve seen was in 1919, needless to say it turned out to be nothing of the sort, although without doubt it was believed by some.
There’s some interesting links from the following, I hope they come out.
The Zionist cabal’s strategy for obtaining their own country (which would allow them to practise racist policies, to ride roughshod over international law, and to blackmail other states into submission) always involved presenting Jews as “victims” of genocide. “Six million” was the number that they had in mind, although as with Saddam’s “WMDs”, it was a question of what they thought they could get away with. Rabbi Stephen Wise is reported in the New York Times of June 11, 1900, to have stated at a Zionist gathering that there were “6,000,000 living, bleeding, suffering arguments in favour of Zionism”. Martin Glynn’s 1919 attempt to create a hoax about six million starving Jews failed, since there weren’t enough dishonest politicians around at the time. In 1936 at the Peel Commission which was looking into the partitioning of Palestine, Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Zionist Organization, asserted that six million Jews in Europe were, in effect, sentenced to be imprisoned, since they were unwanted. And Benjamin Blech tells us that an ancient Jewish prophecy foretold the return of the Jews to the Promised Land after the loss of six million of their number. All the evidence is that Jewish supremacists had a long-standing plan to use the “six million” figure to further their political agenda of global hegemony.
http://www.takeourworldback.com/short/rudolfarrested.htm
This is the first record I can find of the 6 million figure being mentioned at the same time as the world “holocaust”. The American Hebrew newspaper dated the 31st Oct. 1919. On the following link you can see a copy of this newspaper. This report turned out to be a hoax but it was obviously made for a purpose.
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/HTML-docs/The%20Crucifixion%20of%20Jews%20Must%20Stop.htm
Very interesting, Michael. Very interesting.
WTF does it matter ? Perhaps our time should be better spent counting the dead in Iraq – and elsewhere.
In my opinion, Richard, this fact is closely linked to everything. Even the deaths in Iraq. It is untold history.
There is much “untold history”, Jose, why be so selective ?
Get it out of your system, Jose. Tell it straight, how you honestly feel.
“WTF does it matter ? Perhaps our time should be better spent counting the dead in Iraq – and elsewhere.”
I’m afraid we have no choice in accepting that it matters. I have in the last few days been conversing with Israelis over the proposed peace plan made by France, Spain and Italy. There’s nothing in this peace plan which Israel could justifiably object to and they know it, there’s no doubt at all that Israel simply doesn’t want peace, their victim status is crucial.
In the end in my discussion I was invited to rememberer the “holocaust”. The holocaust is what justifies Israel’s very existence, it’s the Holocaust that justifies Israel having nuclear weapons and being able to ignore all IAEA regulations concerning inspections. It’s the holocaust that justifies, according to the USA especially, the need to comply with International Law and countless UN Resolutions. It’s the holocaust that justifies their daily atrocities carried out against Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.
Take away the holocaust and you take away the source of all the tensions in the Middle East, they know this very well and that’s why the holocaust industry has to be maintained.
I do agree with Michael: no holocaust, no Israel, no carnages, the zone would be placid, oil would be extracted as always, Al Qaeda would not exist, no extra cost for the US or Britain or any other country.
quote
“”If,” said Herzl, “we wanted to bring about the unity of mankind independent of national boundaries, we would have to combat the ideal of patriotism. The latter, however, will prove stronger than we for innumerable years to come.
In a hundred years they have almost won that struggle.
In a conversation with Joseph Chamberlain in 1903, Theodore Herzl was asked how the Jewish colony would survive in the distant future. Herzl said, “We shall play the role of a small buffer state. We shall attain this not through the goodwill but from the jealousy of the Powers.”””
unquote
Read the last paragraphs before the Appendix of this document
And, Richard, I always try to speak with honesty. My way is never to be aggressive in the offending sense of the word.
I have no problem with “patriotism”. I am English, and very proud to be that. But I have a problem with “nationalism”.
Israel is full of patriots – as with almost every country in the world – Fine. But it’s the “nationalists” which poison…
By the way, none of you are being truly straight – in my humble (?) view.
Richard you suggest that Jose “Tells it straight, how you honestly feel” and then you make another comment “none of you are being truly straight – in my humble (?) view. ”
Perhaps it’s time you told it straight.
I regret to dissent, Richard, I am no longer a patriot. This is an obsolete word these days when the European Union is trying to get balanced. The word patriotism was invented by those who wanted people to defend their own, dark interests. It seems a little curious that you have not yet realised.
In my opinion nationalism and patriotism walk arm in arm.
Not everybody behaves as you do and you cannot force anybody to behave as you would like them to. It does not seem fair to me.
Jose, I love my country (patriotic), but I detest my government (nationalistic). These terms do not “walk arm in arm” – although “dark interests” would like them to.
Michael, if you want me to be straight – I will be. But, being straight doesn’t make it true. So, I will follow the crooked path of humanity for the time being 🙂
Michael, if you want me to be straight – I will be.
But once again you are not Richard. If you have a piont of view let’s hear it. Riddles do not help in finding answers or a solution.
My point of view, at the moment, is that you appear obsessively over-prejudiced against a politico-religious cabal (“Christian Zionism”), in such a way that it leaves you open to the charge of being anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists.
In other words, beneath that rational exterior there may lurk something which blinds you to greater realities and truths.
I sometimes speak in “riddles”, because when I am forced to “point a finger”, three fingers are pointing back at me – and I can only take certain realities and truths (about myself) in very small doses.
Richard frankly I’m not concerned with trying to convert you to my point of view. I’m also please to see you finally actually expressing an opinion. If I thought for one moment that you might have ulterior motives I might start pointing a finger at you, in fact probably something quite worse.
Whether the German holocaust was as we are forced to believe the burning of 6 million Jews is something which I believe needs to be investigated properly. I must say I’ve gone within 5 years to someone that accepted it totally to someone that now has severe doubts. Some aspects of the holocaust are undoubtedly a myth although many people it seems are unable to accept that. There was the myth that the Germans made soap from the remains of Jews but it has been proved false by none other than the Tel Aviv University which tested thousands of these soap bars for human DNA but found none.
But the biggest question to me is why the “German” holocaust is so sacrosanct in the way we are all forced to remember it but NOT question it but the far larger “holocaust” which unquestionable resulted in at least 5 times more victims in the Soviet Union can be questioned but is hardly ever mentioned. I would be interested if you can come up with some logical explanations for that?
As for the insinuation that I’m anti-semitic, well I guess I am to be honest. I mean the definition of anti-semitic varies so much that it has for all intents and purposes lost any meaning. Just last month the Israeli press said that it was anti-semitic to criticise Israel’s use of cluster bombs in the Lebanon. Other people we describe any criticism of Israel in the same way.
But to be honest I consider any Jew to be a Zionist unless proved otherwise. There’s plenty of precedence for such a view, just consider that anyone of German origin in the UK or Japanese in the USA was interned for the duration whether they were Nazis or not.
Being anti-semitic is supposed to be a form of racism although most Jews claim that they are not a separate race. But when you consider the Jewish State you find that it’s actually based on racism in regard to their laws and also religious beliefs. Just imagine if apartheid South Africa had invented a term to suggest that any criticism of that regime was based on race, because that’s exactly what we are seeing from Israel.
I think, Richard, the three paragraphs of your last comment mean more or less the same.” You are placing yourself in the same bag you are placing us”.
And not for speaking bluntly are you getting better results, I am afraid.
Michael, I hear what you are saying – but I’m really uncomfortable with it.
Prejudice, in all its many guises, is based on ignorance – a human given. We are all prejudiced – to a greater or lesser extent.
Take today’s Brighton Argus Front Page – anybody from Crawley (where I live) is banned from a Brighton nightclub. Completely stupid – ignorant, stupid and prejudiced – and the paper itself for giving it front page.
Where you might point the finger at Jews, I point the finger at Power – which includes Jews but certainly not exclusively.
As to Nazi genocide of Jews in Western Europe taking pre-eminence of what happened in the Soviet Union…most of that can be explained in ‘symbolic’ terms, as part of the anti-Communist Cold War propaganda – much of which was disseminated by the US/UK ‘Jewish Lobby’ for sure – but not exclusively so. To think otherwise would be dangerously naive – and lead to witch-hunts.
“As to Nazi genocide of Jews in Western Europe taking pre-eminence of what happened in the Soviet Union…most of that can be explained in ’symbolic’ terms, as part of the anti-Communist Cold War propaganda.”
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Am I reading this correctly? Are you suggesting 30 million plus didn’t die in the Soviet gulags but in fact it’s just the result of anti-commie propaganda.
That to me seems like holocaust denial. 🙂
Frankly I certainly don’t consider myself a racist in fact the complete opposite. that’s why I treat all Jews with suspicion and Israel with disgust.
No, you know I am not suggesting that, Michael – Are you winding me up 🙂
Well in that case I must assume that you are explaining the fact that the much larger genocide which occurred in Communist Russia isn’t given the same prominence as the “German Holocaust” because of anti-soviet propaganda.
But that doesn’t make much sense to me either.
“””Where you might point the finger at Jews, I point the finger at Power – which includes Jews but certainly not exclusively.”””
If you wish we may discuss what you point the finger at, but under a different heading. Mixing them would probably lead us nowhere.
What is discussed here is Zionism, the State of Israel and its foundation as a consequence of the so-called Holocaust, we are discussing history, not the history that paid historians have published, but the history that witnesses have told and the findings specialised Institutions have made.
Findings that have been gathered by Michael and which in my opinion are worth considering.
And I do not think we are pointing our fingers at the Jews, because there are Jews who oppose the State of Israel, we are pointing our fingers at the machinations carried out by the Zionists with the ultimate end of having at long last a state where they would not suffer being looked down upon by people who used to since centuries ago.
And I wonder why all of them did not establish themselves in the U.S of A.
Because what the Zionists are doing now is just looking down upon their neighbours in the Middle East with the strength being nuclear gives them.
And being economically powerful thanks to the U.S. of A. Curiously enough they, as a state, do not own any oil.
It appears Orwell’s “Crystal Spirit” has resided in my Soul – as an unexpected, but most welcome, Guest :
“Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism…
“By ‘nationalism’ I mean…the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil, and recognising no other duty than that of advancing its interests…
“By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world, but has no wish to force upon other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally.
“Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality…
“Nationalism…includes such movements and tendencies as Communism, political Catholicism, Zionism, anti-Semitism, Trotskyism and Pacifism…
“Nationalism is power-hungry tempered by self-deception. Every nationalist is capable of the most flagrant dishonesty, but he is also – since he is conscious of serving something bigger than himself – unshakeably certain of being in the right…
“The following are the principal characteristics of nationalistic thought :
OBSESSION…
INSTABILITY…
INDIFFERENCE TO REALITY…
“Below are listed the varieties of nationalism now flourishing among English intellectuals…
POSITIVE NATIONALISM…Neo-Toryism…Celtic Nationalism…Zionism
TRANSFERRED NATIONALISM…Communism…Political Catholicism…Colour Feeling…Class Feeling…Pacifism
NEGATIVE NATIONALISM…Anglophobia…Anti-Semitism…Trotskyism
“There is no limit to the follies that can be swallowed, if one is under the influence of feelings of this kind…
(SOURCE : ‘NOTES ON NATIONALISM’ – BY GEORGE ORWELL, POLEMIC MAGAZINE NO. 1, OCTOBER 1945)
Interesting, Richard, but I must say that that patriotism Orwell advocated is maybe the most important snag the Union European has to progress. Considering that one’s country is the best in the world is, in my opinion, a show of arrogance a la americaine, and arrogance have no longer a place in today’s world.
I may like to live in Britain, and believe me I do, because I feel comfortable in her land, with her people, her customs and laws. I like her pubs, her parks, everything. As I do like Spain and France and Germany and in general other countries in Europe, but that does not mean that I am patriotic. I insist patriotism has been ill-used by past and present governments to further their ambitions.
Patriotism and Nationalism mean exclusivism and I am not exclusivist. If I were I would be against the formation of the European Union and I am not.
I am used to living in Tenerife and I do love Tenerife because here is where I have got most of my friends and my family and it is the ensemble of it all that suits my way of living, but at 73 I would not be unhappy to move to Britain or Ireland for good.
There are, it is said, about 200,000 British who live in Spain, I know some, and they are quite happy here.
Pride is not always arrogance, Jose.
As for the European Union, that’s just another super-bloc empire in the making.
Remember Orwell’s 1984 – Oceania (America et al), Eurasia (Europe et al) and Eastasia (China et al)
Well Richard let me say first that I’m disappointed that you have ignored the question I had for you in my previous comments.
Anyway Nationalism, Patriotism, much the same thing in my mind. It manifests itself in even the smallest ways, like supporting your local village football team right through to the olde” Bwitish is best” slogan. The fact is of course Bwitish is not best, I’m afraid many elderly Bwitish have never even ventured from our shores, if they do manage to for the first time they come back with statements like “I was amazed how little litter there was” or “the people were really friendly”, it’s as if they assumed that most of Western Europe had remained untouched since the end of WW11.
Take my Mother in Law for example in Switzerland, she get an old age State pension of around £1,500 a month, the cost of living is not higher than the UK and this is not a contributory pension, this is just the basic, to get it all you have to do is stay alive.
That’s highlights the problem with the Bwitish , indeed it highlights the problems that are caused by excess nationalism and/or patriotism, the assumption that somehow you are superior and the refusal to accept reality or the will to change things. We Bwitish are told repeatedly that we are superior to most of Europe and for that reason we don’t make too many waves to try and emulate what happens elsewhere.
Of course when it comes to patriotism/nationalism of the kind that is found in the USA the Bwitish actually cringe, there’s something about excess flag waving, displays of military strength combined with a belief that G_d is on their side, that to us a huge turn off. the reason for this is because it’s a blatant display of a belief in superiorly. It doesn’t matter in the least that this “superiority” is maintained by causing death and destruction, indeed very few American actually care, or indeed, know about it.
So generally I believe that both nationalism and patriotism is a bad thing, they are drugs to make us believe that we are best and all others are inferior.
Finally I don’t care if the EU is a super bloc in the making, it’s going to happen anyway, all we can do is ensure that it’s a force for good, one that can combat and curb American hegemony. I mean I don’t hear Americans calling for a dissolution of the “United States”.
Well let me say Michael, I’m always a disappointment to myself – so to be a disappointment to you (for not answering to your satisfaction) comes as no surprise.
Ask me those questions straight, and I will answer them straight – and that’s a promise. Whether my answers are right, or whether they are right in your eyes, will be quite another thing.
Re : “Patriotism” – I don’t agree with you. As for the failings of my country, and its people, of course history is a witness to the catalogue of errors. Let he who is without sin caste the first stone…
I love this country – and I have little time for those who, at the first opportunity, live another country (eg Spain).
It has many faults – don’t we all – but I love living here. But that doesn’t mean I love the system of government, and its power-brokers.
But, if my country is attacked (just as if my community, or my family, is attacked – I will defend it.
If another country invaded and occupied my country, I would defend it to the death (at least I hope I would) – in the same if someone attacked my home, and my family, I would defend to the death.
Michael, your faith in the European Union is touching – but naive
It will become a ‘United States of Europe’, and end up as arrogant as the United States – with all the trimmings of Empire.
Yes, it is necessary for our survival – but don’t ask me to be “patriotic” towards it – that’s like asking me to take pride in, and love, Sainsbury’s or Tesco’s.
Read Emmanuel Goldstein.
Yes Richard, everyone in the world probably without exception would defend their family, home or country so why state the obvious? The problem is of course is that some people seem unable to appreciate that people from Iraq or Palestine might feel the same way.
Patriotism is really just another form of tribalism.
I certainly don’t expect the EU to finish up the same way as the USA, Europeans are far more intelligent and have the advantage of centuries of learning by mistakes, we also have the necessary dash of “socialism” which the USA lacks which is essential to a civilised society.
My guess is that you had better learn to express loyalty to the EU because the alternative is that you might have to get used to being excluded otherwise. Urgent European integration on all levels is essential for the future and those that want either to avoid it or slow it down need to stand aside, even if that includes the whole of the UK.
There’s a train coming Richard, you can either get aboard or remain on the platform.
At this point I recall those immortal words written by Bob Dylan ( Jewish)
Come gather ’round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You’ll be drenched to the bone.
If your time to you
Is worth savin’
Then you better start swimmin’
Or you’ll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin’.
I can’t be assed reading Emmanuel Goldstein, I assume you realise he’s a fictitious Jew?
I think I’ll travel under my own steam, thank you Michael – the platform is already over-crowded, the train is now privatized, and it’s on a road to nowhere.
As for Bob Dylan and his lyrics, it is obvious you missed the point of what the 60’s ‘revolution’ was all about.
And as for Emmanuel Goldstein, I was testing you out 🙂
And as for your statement “Europeans are far more intelligent”, blah, blah, blah…we don’t have to go very far back in history (65 years) to witness the moral disintegration of the most highly-civilised, cultured country in Europe.
With your views Richard there won’t be any trains to be crowded or anyone at all waiting on the station..
“I’m sitting at the railway station…” (S & G)
Sorry, Michael, I didn’t quite understand your last remark.
There will be your crowded trains and crowded platforms – you can be sure of that – but people like me would probably find themselves tied to the track ):
It sounds very pessimistic, Richard, why? You are always putting yourself under the horses’ hooves. Brace yourself and ride those horses.
Maybe I read too much Orwell…
Interesting discussion but I think that Richard may possibly be underestimating christianZionism as a force that may help bring about much more misery than it already has.
And does 600,000 plus Iraqis not constitute genocide? Doesn’t that give them at least 50 years to use it as a reason they can do anything they wish to anyone they wish and no one may say anything or be called ‘anti-Iraqi’ (and they are semites but that term has already been claimed)