We know that those social layers do not behave uniformly in all countries, don’t we? Their interests are particular and coincide with those on the same levels in other countries.

I think German culture doesn’t encourage public exhibition of emotional intelligence… touchy feely stuff is frowned on generally.

But when all’s said and done, I think racism is very much a minority thing… most Germans are open and accepting of foreigners. But their culture also makes them stand up for their rights - so if a hotel room isn’t what was advertised in the brochure, they’ll be down inreception complaining and demanding a rebate. If the food is not fresh, they’ll call the chef over and complain. If the train is late they’ll be angry…

Better that than the traditional British approach of letting people give shoddy service and get away with it though. Dirty hospitals, poor service and cheating wouldn’t happen if there were more Germans around.

re: “…once a new being is begot in her womb to decide whether to dispose of it or not is not an easy question.”

Ever ask ‘why?’ this isn’t an easy question? Maybe it’s such a difficult question because she is “deciding” to kill a person-! If it’s not a person then it’s not really such a difficult question.

If self-styled ‘liberals’ tolerate intolerance, they will eventually go under. There has to be a point at which they must say “enough is enough”. Your mention of the Dutch experience is interesting. As someone who benefited from, and was greatly heartened by, Dutch toleration of homosexuals in the 1960s, when we in England were struggling to decriminalise it, I have always watched the Netherlands with interest. It has taken a great deal of provocation to shift the Dutch from their traditionally tolerant [and maybe too complacent] attitudes; the murders of Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh were turning points.

Britain has traditionally welcomed immigrants, especially refugees from oppression in their own countries. Most of these groups, although they have sometimes settled in locations to which they have brought their own cultural flavour, have willingly melded in with the indigenous population around them and have not been confrontational. This, however, is sadly not the case with many Muslims, especially ex-Pakistani ones. To say there aren’t any ‘no go’ areas in the UK is nonsense. I grew up 20 miles from Bradford, before there was a Muslim presence in that city. Today, there are around a quarter of a million Muslims living there, and it is obvious from what one reads – not least on blogs such as Comment is Free – that the white population feel their quality of life has been adversely affected because of the separatism practised by many of their Muslim neighbours. The same is true of many other northern and midlands towns.

It is no use liberals and others committed to a pluralistic, open culture turning a blind eye to this. I have no wish to be antagonistic to Muslims or any other group – I personally know some very personally pleasant ones – but the implications for our social and cultural future have to be faced up to, which the mealy-mouthed mantras of ‘multiculturalism’ don’t do.

It is not a matter of defensiveness; it is a matter of being realistic. Earthpal says “I am happy for my neighbour to practice their faith and live his or her lifestyle in the way they feel is appropriate.” So am I – but only if they are prepared to recognise that others have an equal right to do the same. It is no use wringing ones hands over “a huge and almost unsurmountable problem” and saying we don’t know how it can ever be resolved. That is an ostrich position. It had better be resolved, and soon, if we don’t want social disorder and bloodshed in the streets in a few years’ time. No-one who is peaceable and civilized relishes confrontation, but sometimes confrontation is unavoidable in which case the sooner it happens in a peaceful but resolute manner the better.

I am old enough to remember being a small boy in the 1930s, when very few people wanted another European war but slowly and reluctantly its inevitability had to be faced. That is the classic dilemma of the classic liberal!

So, yes this is a real dilemma because how do you change aggressive and belligerent religious attitudes? We’ve had plenty of examples of such intolerance in the West (Catholics vs protestants and vice versa) fought over in bloody wars. I think I’m trying to say I totally agree that there is a huge and almost unsurmountable problem and I don’t know how we can ever resolve this.

The question is, what is to be done now to avoid destructive clashes between people of different faiths and lifestyles? You say, earthpal, that Muslims “need” to bring their faith into the 21st century, and the West “needs” to stop being so suspicious and untrusting. Yes, they do - but no-one can MAKE them change their beliefs and behaviours, and everybody has to do this for themselves. All others can do is to offer incentives - ‘bait’, if you like. How should those of us who wish for peace and human solidarity more than the ‘triumph’ of any one creed or lifestyle play what few influential cards we have?